Facts about Teak Decking

[Viejo]

Thought I posted this, but can't find it, so if I did, sorry about that.
We want to put back the teak decking on the Marlin, but don't have any to see what the size of each piece is. I was wondering if most subs used the same width and thickness for their decking? I'll include a picture showing the Marlin with decking on it. Looks to me like maybe around 2 and 1/4" wide and maybe 3/4 or 7/8" thick. We do have access to a planer if needed.

Thanks,
Viejo

[emeacho]

These two files have the measurements for the batens used aboard Torsk.  The dimensions were taken from the BUSHIPS drawing for the deck on Torsk.

[Viejo]

Thanks, that will give me something to go by. I'll measure the spacing and the center to center to the fastners, but I'll bet the Marlin uses the same size. I had no idea they used 6/4 lumber for thickness.
Viejo

[emeacho]

We are replacing the decking right now with something called ipe, which is a Brazilian hardwood.  It is supposed to be more durable than teak.   It is certainly a hard wood.  Drilling and cutting is a job for some tough bits and blades. If you decide to use it, follow the recommendations about painting.  It needs to cure for quite a while before it can be painted or coated.  It actually turns a nice grayish black color as it ages.  So far, we have no plans to paint over it because it looks pretty good as it is.

[Viejo]

thanks for the info. That is like walnut and as you said is very hard. Trying to figure costs differences, but some sources seem to indicate it is cheaper than teak.  Can you tell me the sizes of the decking you are putting down? I was surprised to find out that some is 1 1/2 inches thick.
Thanks,Viejo

[Mark Sarsfield]

Batfish deck is being replaced with Brazilian Purple Heart Wood.  According to a wood hardness table that I found a while ago, it's about 2/3 the hardness of teak.  I think the museum spent something like $36,000 on the wood 6 years ago.  Granted, we  have at least 2X the area to cover as you would on the Marlin.  This wood will definitely need to be painted and there is a special process to get the paint to stick.  It turns a light haze gray color once it dries out.

[Viejo]

Mark, one place I found for the IPE listed a 2 x 12 as 17 dollars a lineal foot, but if I fudged a little and got six pieces out of that, it would make it less than Three dollars a lineal foot. That would be less than $5000 if I am looking at the deck in the right way.  In looking at the pictures of the decking on the Marlin, looks to me like around 200 sq ft. This boat is pretty small compared to a normal sub. Don't think we have 30 feet in length for the wood decking and the biggest part  is only about six feet wide. Now they said on one site I read, not to paint or stain the IPE for several years/months. Have to go look it up again. think one guy said he didn't plan on painting at all. But wonder if it would be good to paint or do something on the underside. I'll do a lot of reading on whatever we get. I know American Walnut takes 5 years before you are even supposed to work with it.
I'll read up on the Purple Heart Wood also.  I have used that Ironwood for a wood project, but don't remember if it is used for decking. It was very hard to work with.
Thanks for your info also.
Viejo

[Mark Sarsfield]

That is definitely a much smaller area to cover than on the Bat-boat.  We have over 2,000 sq. ft to cover with wood.  It will be three years this upcoming Memorial Day since we started working on the deck.  A lot longer than my "this will only take 1 year!" estimate.     On average our guys can put down about 12 - 15 boards per work day. 

Now I know why the boats were mostly shell-backed back during the war.  Not only for more protection, but also because it takes a lot less effort to install a large metal plate than it does to bolt down countless boards over the same area.

[Viejo]

Someone at sometime, put like a stiff fencing in place of the decking. It is fine to walk on, but want to put the wood back up and also the handrails and lines so we can let people, with supervision, walk up there. The problem is there is only about 6 " of decking to stand on while walking around the sail and one side has a rotted away handrail of which wei'll have to fix. This wil be a good project for our Stratcom guys. I'll bring up an extra radial arm saw and have a cheap source for carbide blades and bits. So should be fun to do. It's supposed to be nice weather tomorrow, so will get some measuring done. 
Should maybe post this in a separate post, but am going to talk to the paint store the city uses to find out whether a smaller airless or a good sized HVLP system would work the best to try and paint as much as possible of the walls, wires, and pipes on the insides. I have used HVLP, but am leaning toward using an airless to get better control of the pattern. HVLP, when using a pressurized system can be tricky to keep it going on uniformly.
Viejo

[Wesley Green]

not sure where you got the info on purple heart vs teak, but on the Janka scale Teak has a hardness of 1000, purpleheart is 1650.

granted green teak will sink, which is why it was installed on the decks of subs to prevent floating deck giving away position during depth charging

[Viejo]

Mark put up this info:Batfish deck is being replaced with Brazilian Purple Heart Wood.  According to a wood hardness table that I found a while ago, it's about 2/3 the hardness of teak. 
Here is probably the chart you were looking at or a similar one. There are a lot of variables in the same woods. Some of the american woods no longer match what they used to be, because they used to be cut mainly from heart wood and now are frequently cut from sap wood due to being a lot younger trees that grow in more open spaces. Also where it is grown makes a big difference.  So Teak and IPE are about the same at around 3500. Purple Heart is from 1860-2090 depending on how it is spelled. Also of course, how much resistance a piece of wood has to mold and insects makes a difference.
WOOD SPECIES RATING
California Redwood  420
Douglas Fir  660
Southern Yellow Pine (loblolly & short leaf)  690
Honduran Mahogany  800
African Mahogany  830
South American Lacewood  840
Southern Yellow Pine (longleaf)  870
Black Cherry  950
American Black Walnut
American Black Walnut Hardwood Flooring 1010
Peruvian Walnut  1080
Brazilian Eucalyptus  1125
Teak  1155
Bamboo (carbonized)  1180
Larch  1200
Heart Pine  1225
Caribbean Heart pine  1240
Yellow Birch  1260
Red Oak (Northern)  1290
American Beech  1300
Ash  1320
White Oak  1360
Australian Cypress  1375
Bamboo (natural)  1380
Royal Mahogany  1400
Hard maple  1450
African Walnut/Sappelle  1500
Brazlian Maple  1500
Zebrawood  1575
Wenge  1630
Brazilian Oak  1650
Bamboo  1650
Patens  1691
Peruvian Maple  1700
Kempas  1710
African Pedauk (Padeuk/African Cherry)  1725
Bolivian Rosewood /Morado  1780
Hickory/Pecan  1820
Kempas  1854
Purpleheart  1860
Jarrah  1910
Amendoim  1912
Merbau  1925
African Rosewood (Bubinga)  1980
Grapia  2053
Jarrah  2082
Purple Heart  2090
Tigerwood  2160
Burma Mahogany  2170
Amberwood  2200
Cabreuva (Santos Mahogany)  2200
Caribbean Rosewood  2300
Mesquite  2345
Brazilian Cherry (Jatoba) 2350
Peruvian Cherry  2350
Red Walnut  2450
African Cedar / Bosse  2600
Patagonian Rosewood  2800
Bloodwood  2900
Brazilian Rosewood (Tamarindo)  3000
Brazilian Redwood  3190
Tiete Rosewood  3280
Cumaru (Brazilian Teak)  3540
Southern Chestnut, Tiete Chestnut  3540
Lapacho (usually grouped with IPE Wood)
Ipe Lumber  3640
Bolivian Cherry  3650
African Pearwood/Moabi  3680
Brazilian Walnut / Ipe
Ipe Decking 3680
Brazilian Ebony  3692
Patagonian Rosewood  3840
Brazilian Tiger Mahogany  3840
Curupy
 3880

 

[Viejo]

Just found out that Ironwood ( trademark name) is the same as IPE. So I have worked with it and it is hard, but finishes nicely. Went up to the Marlin today and measured and 200 sq ft will cover the part of the deck that had wood on it.  Saw that they were using 5/16" bolts. We'll have to drill them out.  Figured out from spacing of bolts that the wood must have been 2 1/2" wide and it was 1 1/2" in thickness. So think it will run around $3500 to buy the wood. Maybe as much in bolts, drill bits and saw blades. LOL  Actually if you use an actual rip blade when cutting any hardwood, your saw pulls about 20% less amps and the saw blade doesn't get near as dull as using a combination blade. I look forward to someday getting started on putting a wood deck back on the Marlin.  In reading about IPE, it said that the deck could last up to 40 years without a sealer and up to 100 years if you used one. Not sure I'll ever prove that one way or the other, but maybe a great grandkid can. I'll put up some pictures of the deck, probably on the Freedom Park page in the next few days.
Viejo

[Rick]

Just a suggestion on hardware.  If you have brass recycle them.  we were able to recover about 85% of the brass hardware that was on the Batfish.  this prvided hardware for 70% of the deck we had to lay down.  Removal was not that hard to do and saved us a ton of $$$ end the end.

[Viejo]

Rick,
I haven't cut one out yet, but from the looks, they are 2 inch 5/16" carriage bolts of steel. Most are gone with just the holes left. What is there is pretty much rusted. I"ll cut some out to make sure.
Viejo

[Mark Sarsfield]

You guys are right.  Purple Heart is a lot denser than Teak.  The table that I had found must have had the wrong information.