FIRE SUPPRESSION SYSTEM

[Brian Flynn]

Thanks guys!

Hey - you know what might be a good idea - what if we all created a Basic Fire Control Plan based on our experiences with our boats?  This way, perhaps all of the subs could benefit in some way and at the very least have a skeleton plan to work with for heir particular needs.

I think this is a fantastic idea, especially given that we know that fire/flooding casualties have occured on museum ships.  A checklist on the proper things that need to get done with discussion would be a good start.  I'm way overbooked for the next few weeks, but I'll see what I can pull together from this discussion.

Brian

[Tom Bowser]

I am a little late jumping in on this, been kind of busy.

The Drum has three dry chemical extinguishers, emergency lighting that comes on with power failure, two fire hose connections on deck with hoses and nozzles under sail. Glow in the dark arrows showing the way to nearest exits, flash lights in each compartment in lockers that the crew can get too. The extinguishers are in plain sight and should be, there are only so many concessions that should be made for history. You have to remember that the majority of people on board at any time haven't a clue as to where they are, which way is out or how to fight a fire. We have had boy scouts set of the extinguishers on the boat and the Battleship, those packs have not been invited back.

The best thing to do is prevention. Don't let used rags pile up, keep oil out of the bilges, look for any flamables of any kind near transformers and old shaky wiring. Practice going thru the boat with no lights of any kind and se if you can find flash lights, battle laterns, etc.

The Navy inspection is focused on visitor safety and they should have commented on your fire safety and lighting.
Tom

[Rick]

We have addressed the issues that the Navy Inspectors and fire inspectors have pointed out.   I am not 100% comfortable with the current setup however.  I think that there is more that we can do to make the boat safer and keep the historical aspect of the boat as well.

Rick

[Brian Flynn]

The extinguishers are in plain sight and should be, there are only so many concessions that should be made for history. You have to remember that the majority of people on board at any time haven't a clue as to where they are, which way is out or how to fight a fire. We have had boy scouts set of the extinguishers on the boat and the Battleship, those packs have not been invited back.

I think that's a different question - Is it a fire extinguisher, a historic artifact or both?  Each boat will have its own answer.  Personally, I like the idea of using modern fire extinguishers, but paint them bright orange, place them out of the way and train on where they are.  Leave artificats alone.

Brian

[JohnG]

I thought of this, it's just a idea so I'll throw it out.

What did they use back in WW2? Primitive extinguishers? If so, create a period looking shell for our modern extinguishers and problem solved. Then it is both a functional extinguisher and a artifact.

[Lance Dean]

... Personally, I like the idea of using modern fire extinguishers, but paint them bright orange, place them out of the way and train on where they are...

Can you safely protect yourself legally with orange fire extinguishers?  I figured they were required by some kind of code to be a certain color, sort of like fire hydrants.  I don't know.

[JTheotonio]

If I recall, much older fire extinguishers had a wheel on top and had to be turned upside down to operate.  Here are a few pictures.  None show one from a WWII sub

[Shipwreck]

I think this is where we just have to make the more logical and safer choice.  Frankly, I think that folks are so use to seeing regular extinguishers that to have them on our boat wouldn't be intrusive.  They'd be seen but not seen.  I am opposed to 'hiding' them too.  Museum staff wouldn't necessarily be the one to fight the fire.  If a patron came across a fire, why prevent them from grabbing an extinguisher too?  You'd be surprised who all would have the gumption to fight the fire.

I also think we should incorporate within our plan a fire drill and training on the use of extinguisers etc.  Perhaps we can arrange this simutaneously with our local fire dept training on the boat.  Just some thoughts.

[JTheotonio]

The fire department is always willing to help.  I'd just be careful that it doesn't turn into a full blown fire inspection.

Another thought - do you have any oil refineries or processing plants nearby?  All refineries have their own fire departments and do a lot of training on specific types of fires and enclosed spaces.  They have their own facilities.  So does the fire department.  Maybe your volunteers could go to them for training at their facilities instead of doing it on the boat.

Creating evacuation and fire fighting plans is not all that hard when you are talking about 315' long space.  One part of any plan should be the periodic inspection of the entire boat from top to bottom, stem to stern, including topside. 

One person or two on staff should be assigned as your own fire marshals/safety inspectors, who conduct the inspections.  Prevention is a key to any emergencies.  The fire department should be helpful with respects to what and how to conduct inspections.

I don't know if this actually happens, but tourists may discard paper, napkins, or anything by stuffing their trash behind something.  You see this everywhere (stores, movie theaters, museums, etc.) The fire department is always willing to help.  I'd just be careful that it doesn't turn into a full blown fire inspection.

Another thought - do you have any oil refineries or processing plants nearby?  All refineries have their own fire departments and do a lot of training on specific types of fires and enclosed spaces.  They have their own facilities.  So does the fire department.  Maybe your volunteers could go to them for training at their facilities instead of doing it on the boat.

Creating evacuation and fire fighting plans is not all that hard when you are talking about 315' long space.  One part of any plan should be the periodic inspection of the entire boat from top to bottom, stem to stern, including topside. 

One person or two on staff should be assigned as your own fire marshals/safety inspectors, who conduct the inspections.  Prevention is a key to any emergencies.  The fire department should be helpful with respects to what and how to conduct inspections.

Something else to consider use a check out/check in process whenever using something such as cleaning products and paint.  Account for any flammable substance going on the boat so that nothing is left behind.

I don't know if this actually happens, but tourists discard paper, napkins, or anything by stuffing their trash behind something.  You see this everywhere (stores, movie theaters, museums, etc.)

As for fire extinguishers - I'd prefer they are good, useable, and easy to find.  If you want to display originals OK, but a modern extinguisher would be safer.

[Darrin]

John,
To answer your question about people dropping their papers,trash, cell phones in the bilges.. yes it does happen and while I could say that I have field dayed our bilges on the Torsk I would be lying to you. Yes I have been in the FER and AER bilges and removed some of the trash but it is an on going project that needs to be done. I don't know if any of the boats have a MSDS book made up or not, it is one of the things that we do inspect in the Industrial Hygiene side of DPW and that is a big hit if they are missing the data sheets for all of the chemicals that they have in their buildings. IF you do have that book already made up where is it stored at and who has access to it?? I have always been told that it should be accessable to all and centeralized in location to the building or for a submarine maybe at the docents shack or at the ticket booth that way IF there is a fire or the boat smokes out for some reason the F&ES will be able to review what is known to be onboard.

[JTheotonio]

Do I have a book - no

Where should it be located - that typically is agreed upon with the fire department - as they will need it in a hurry.  The ticket booth or docents shack are probably good choices.  Remember after hours too.  What will happen if something catches fire after smoldering all day and it is now after hours?  So maybe you do need to get more involvement with the FD.

Here's a general question for all boats.  Do any have smoke detectors?  Do any boats have security alarms (ADT comes to mind)?  If so at what level are these detectors and security alarm in use? Alarm companies call FD and Police?

I think a lot of good will come from this discussion. 

[JohnG]

Going on what JTheotonio  was saying, Georgia Pacific has their own Fire Department and  EMT's.

[Shipwreck]

Here's a general question for all boats.  Do any have smoke detectors?  Do any boats have security alarms (ADT comes to mind)?  If so at what level are these detectors and security alarm in use? Alarm companies call FD and Police?

I think a lot of good will come from this discussion. 

I'm ashamed to say it but in all the discussion, I didn't even consider smoke alarms.  Hell these can be aquired as a donation.  But will the faint Diesel 'smell' set them off?  Would Carbon Dioxide detecters be usefull onboard?

As for this discussion doing some good - MAAANNNN  have I learned a lot.  The great things about 'round table' type discussions is having folks voice questions and thoughts you never would have imagined from the perspective you are working.  This topic has certainly been heaven sent for me.  My proposal keeps changing though   LOL!

[JohnG]

The diesel smell won't set of smoke detectors.

[Lance Dean]

Would Carbon Dioxide detecters be usefull onboard?

Carbon Dioxide detectors?

If you meant Carbon Monoxide detectors, I can't believe they'd be useful in any way unless there was some type of propane/natural gas being used on the boat.  If your system is all electric, I don't know why carbon monoxide detection would matter.