USS Ling Status

[Carl]

The Ling sits on the Hackensack River on property owned by Malcolm Borg and the North Jersey Media Group (the publisher of almost all local newspapers serving Northern New Jersey)  The property also houses a major newpaper production plant that is now idle since the production has been moved to another location.  Borg wants to sell the property to a developer and has asked the Ling to move. 

There are several complicating factors.  First, a bridge just downriver of the Ling is on the verge of collapse and the Bergen County government is trying to get a replacement built.  This added fuel to Borg's fire because the County wanted to install a cheap fixed bridge which would have locked the Ling in place.  To the County's dismay, they were told the river upstream of the bridge was still considered to be navigable by the USCG and the National Historical Association told them the bridge was a Landmark and could only be replaced by an exact duplicate swing bridge.  Pressure off - somewhat.

Adding to the problem, the river downstream of the Ling has gotten silted up and has a depth of only 6 feet in many areas.  The Ling itself only comes off the bottom with really high tides and following major storms.  USCG estimates north of $7M to dredge (not counting any EPA problems with probable contaminated fill).  If the Ling were moved downsteam, it would also have to go under several bridges and their current construction soundness is problematic.  This also removes the possibility of floating the Ling the same way the Razorback was floated.

So, either the Ling stays essentially where it is, or it is moved in pieces.  The latter possibility has been proposed by the Mayor of Paterson New Jersey who wants to move the Ling to the Passaic River and into a new National Park that is being considered by Congress for the Great Falls area.  He wants the Ling upstream of the falls (certainly isn't going to float it there).  The connection makes some sense because John Holland built the Holland I in Paterson, and it is still there (with the Holland III - Fenian Ram) in the Paterson museum.  The museum is just a few blocks from the proposed location for the Ling.  $$$$$??

Staying in place is probably the best option, but it will require some accommodation between the property owner and the County/State.  In these economic times, convincing the voting public to pay more taxes is always a tough sell. 

Note that the only other viable alternative may be razor blades!

If anything new comes up, I'll try to update this.  Please sign our petition and mail it in.  You can find the petition at http://mysite.verizon.net/resx5uqm/savetheling/index.html

[Tom Bowser]

Jeez that's rough but at least it sounds like it may have bought a little time. Maybe they could sale to a devloper who would understand the value of having an historic ship there. Good luck.
Tom Bowser

[Paul Farace]

OK, so what is the value of having a sub on the property? If you don't have any control over the boat, it represents liability to the property owner, who probably is hoping to build condos, etc. Sadly, the LING should be in a situation where it can be restored (fixed) and available to a large audience. My feeling is that its present berth can not provide that. She is a very unique boat, having all of her SARGO II batteries (oh, if only COD could say that!   )   

She will be saved, somehow. It is too valuable to scrap.

Paul

[Travis McLain]

Wouldn't having a tourist attraction on a property increase values? Not only would the residents have something to do, but it would also bring more potential buyers into the area.

[Fred Tannenbaum]

I would like to think the Ling would be attractive to potential new residents of that area and that they would consider it an enhancement of their property. I think the reality may be more apathetic. We lived in the Hampton Roads area when they moved the U.S.S. Wisconsin to the Nauticus/Hampton Roads Naval Museum and the people in the condos across the slip complained about the battlewagon blocking their views.      People probably didn't feel that way about the Wisconsin when she was hurling 16-inch shells of whup-a** at the Japanese, North Koreans and Tomahawks at the Iraqis. 

[Travis McLain]

Yea I think they would be glad she is blocking there view from fascist's and dictatorships. But if anyone complains of a submarine blocking thier view they would have to be a really short. lol.

[Carl]

Remember, it's not just the Ling, it's also a Kaiten, a SeaHund, a PBR, several missiles, the New Jersey Gudgeon memorial, and the NJ Naval Museum that, although small, is filled with artifacts.  The Navy would like to see both of the midgets and the PBR in a building because they are quite rare.  Only 1 other SeaHund still exists.  That makes a fairly large property requirement, not just a view-block on the riverfront.

[Fred Tannenbaum]

I just remembered another possibility to get the Ling to a new home, as long as it isn't very far: About five years ago, they raised the U-505 in Chicago into wheels, rolled her over to the edge of the new underground exhibit hall they built for her and lowered her down. The display is amazing and something everyone should see, but I digress. The Ling would have to be lifted out of the water. It would be about nine feet wider, 60 feet longer and heavier and taller than a Type IXC U-boat but I think still could be done. Can it be done between Hackensack and Passaic? I don't know but maybe it's an option worth a look.

[Mark Sarsfield]

They used a large crane to move the Batfish from the barges into the water before towing her into her final berth.  So, anything is possible if you have the money.

[AtoZ]

As a long term member of USSVI, a plankowner of the North Jersey Base, and having been involved in the operation, maintenance and politics of the Ling at various levels from tour guide and duty electrician, to Board Member and Executive Director for >30 years I'm fairly knowledgeable on the subject.

Firstly: The Ling, the PBR, the Kaiten, the Seehund and all the missiles, anchors, mines, etc are on loan to the Submarine Memorial Association/NJ Naval Museum from, and are the property of, the USN. They are inspected by the Navy annually and they tell us what maintenance is required. They cannot be moved or modified in any way without prior permission.

Secondly: As far as involving them in a profit making enterprise is a big no no. That was tried with Croaker in Groton and before you could blink a YTB from subase showed up and "took their submarine".

Thirdly: The interior of the boat and the pressure hull are in fine shape but the outer hull and tanks are terribly rusted and falling apart and I can't see repair, at any cost, as a viable alternative. The only thing that"s saving her is the cradle of silt that she's lying in and supported by with hight tide hiding the rottenest parts.

Fourthly: Scrapping in place doesn't seem very practical if this is what the USN opts for except that the batteries are still there. That's about 250 tons of lead which may make it profitable along with all the brass and bronze, but who knows.

Please post comments, arguments, good ideas, whatever that might make me feel better about this whole deal.

AtoZ
Age & Treachery
Will always prevail
Over Youth & Vigor

[JTheotonio]

1 - 4 don't sound good. #5 - USN gives Ling some respect and donates her to the museum 

[Paul Farace]

Croaker didn't get into trouble with the Navy over "profit" status...

The subvets running the boat as their clubhouse let the boat fall into such disrepair that the Navy was forced to repo the boat when no one was willing or able to step into the situation and change things... it ended up being given to Buffalo, NY.

PF 

[Avery Boyer]

Is the corrosion on her hull so severe they cannot tow her at all? Or would it be possible to get her to a drydock and patch her up before towing her in open ocean? What about building a temporary cofferdam around her and patching her up that way? Both of these ideas seem pretty expensive, and the cost of dredging to get her out of there is in the millions too.

I think it is pessimistic to say that she is beyond viable repair. She's not sunk yet, so there must be a way to refloat her. But then, what do I know. 

Even as I say this, it truly seems that the only viable way to save Ling, barring intervention by the state/city/federal government/really rich sub guy (take your pick) is to keep her where she is.

[Ctwilley]

So, what's the current status of the Ling? Is she still on the rocks?

[Lance Dean]

So, what's the current status of the Ling? Is she still on the rocks?

I haven't heard anything in a while.