New Torpedoes

[Ctwilley]

No rush. Good things come to those who wait...at least that's what the catchup commercials used to say.

[Darrin]

I know but I hate to promise something when actually I can't because I am not management with BMM/Constellation. HOPEFULLY they will realize that this will benefit more of the museum community then just Torsk, which is what my intention is with these torpedo straps and with helping all of the submarine museum community out with the school of the boats.
When are you planning to load weapons?? just wondering so I can guesstimate when to start that school of the boat, I am wanting to do that one in advance to your load out so you and others can walk through the steps and modify the loading process as needed for your boat.

[Mark Sarsfield]

My guess is next year after the new deck is laid down.

[Darrin]

Just let me know when you start to get close so I can set down with a few good TM's and make this one happen

[Rick]

Will do.  e are working on gettng the torpedo tubs open right now.  That looks to be the "easiext" way to load these right now.   

[Darrin]

Rick,
Are you planning on "back hauling" the weapons through the tubes instead of loading the weapons the way that they are supposed to come onboard??? reason I am asking this is because there is a LOT of things that have to be done for this to work correctly and it may take more to load them from the muzzle doors..

[Darrin]

ALL,
I just posted a link for you to see how Torsk and her crew loaded weapons in 2000 and then again in 2002, we no longer have our weaopns shipping hatches due to them being cut for the tourists ladders, so this is what our TM LPO and crew came up with to load our weapons and SONAR equipment.
Here is the link:  http://www.submarinemuseums.org/forum/index.php?topic=582.0

[Tom Bowser]

Lesley and I move our MK 27 from the forward room to the after Room by leaving the visitor ladders in place and using three chain falls to keep it off the ladder. We didn't have the use of a crane so we atttached one chainfall to the 5" gun barrel and used that as our hoisting point. Once on deck we put it on a home made rolling skid and rolled it to the after hatch, turned it around and again used three chain falls to lower it into the room. Took us about 4 hours. That was the same method used to move two skids from the forward room to aft. The restored MK 27 was easier because it was much lighter.

Just take it slow and easy how ever you do it.
Tom

[Rick]

Rick,
Are you planning on "back hauling" the weapons through the tubes instead of loading the weapons the way that they are supposed to come onboard??? reason I am asking this is because there is a LOT of things that have to be done for this to work correctly and it may take more to load them from the muzzle doors..

This is the initial plane.  I have been reading the posts and realize htat there is a large amount of work that will need to do thia.   Unfortunately we are an a very soft ground and there seams to be avery big lack of help for us out here.   There jus does not seem to be a good crain in Muskogee that can get to us.   The pipe yard next door is very kind in letting us use their large forklift, but it does not reach to the top of the boat.     

[Tom Bowser]

Rick
You are right the load thru the muzzle door should be easier if you can get one of the doors open. It might be a good idea to remove the rollars from inside the tube be for you start just to insure there is enough clearence. If the rollars have the narrow gap in them the MK27 guide rails will get hung up in the rollars. Also suggest taking the wood spacers off the stern of the 27 so you have a better place to atttach a sling or line. Have fun.
Tom

[JTheotonio]

Darrin is correct about trying to back load a torpedo through one of the tubes.  You could end up with a stuck fish.  All of the safeties need to be disconnected, trripping latch mechanism along with the gyro, speed and depth spindles.  I think it would be more work than trying to get help to load from topside.

A torpedo is in three basic sections, warhead, energy section, and engine.  I don't know the condition of your torpendo, but what is the possibility of taking it apart and loaded each secion individually?  Then reassemble once below.  This would take some time but could be easier.  torpedo's have balance points so you will need to consider this for each section.  I don't know if anyone has tried this - we did have the ability to do some maintenance, which could include taking apart the torpedo if needed while underway.  There was not not point indoing this so it was not common.  I can only remember once taking the engine section off - the Chief wanted to show us something - his only reason.

[Darrin]

Rick, do you have any of your handeling gear topside?? it was stowed underneath the deck on the Starboard side if I remember correctly and it constists of basicly a large A frame and boom that goes over the side to pick the weapon up out of the water and block and tackle was used in conjuction with it. You need to take a look at this link if you haven't done so already, it walks you through the torpedo tube interlocking mechanism and how to set it up so that you can open the muzzle and the breech door at the same time.

http://www.hnsa.org/doc/fleetsub/tubes/chap4.htm#4A

IF you haven't done so by now START greasing the tubes and the interlocks along with the hull zerk fittings for the shutter doors and muzzle doors and when you start to open your shutter/muzzle doors make sure that you do that slow and continue to grease them the whole time and move them back and forth little by little until they are both all the way open and then block the ram(s) so that they will not start to shut while you have people cleaning out the shutter door area and when you start to load your weapons.
 
How high can the fork lift get as far as tube wise??? because I am looking on the batfish virtual tour and it appears that tubes 3,5,6 have water in them at least in this pic. The reason that I know that is the sight glasses are red and they aren't supposed to be unless there is water in them and if that is just discoleration that is an easy fix to take the lens covers off after the tubes have been verified empty and soak them in warm soapy water and then clean them up and put them back on. The other problem with having water set in the tubes for a number of years is the barnacles and growth that happens inside of the tubes. while I am using the term barnacles they really aren't but they are a pain in the butt to clean out and then preserve taking care not to damage the tubes or the breech door which is bronze.

The after torpedo room tubes look to be dry (again from the virtual tour) but I don't see any skids in the aft room? while that isn't a problem just means that it will be sticking out of the tube and onto the mine table, again I would use an upper tube for that for two reasons. 1. easier on the backs when pulling the weapon in and 2. IF the area floods you won't have to worry too much about water coming into the people tank if the muzzle door doesn't get sealed all the way back up.

Remember the after tubes are longer then the forward room tubes by a couple of feet so take that into consideration when figuring out how much block and tackle you are going to be needing.

[Darrin]

Hey John,
we loaded our Mk 45 by breaking it apart and restoring it and not putting it together until it was onboard, a standard hand truck was used along with a couple of come alongs to get it down into the room safely.

And yes John is correct about the lifting points on the weapon because the true center of gravity has changed when they pulled the  572 lbs of TORPEX out and filled it with concrete or plaster, and you have to be carefull because you can bend the weapon

[JTheotonio]

Not having the ability to remember much anymore, but there is a point when loading a torpedo from topside that the weight must be taken up with a chainhoist below so that the torpedo can be lowered into the skids.  Strain is kept from topside, and as the torpedo is balanced from below you can lower away.  All of this is done very slow.  You can see what this was very hard while at sea.

The torpedo is coming down at an angle on a loading skid.  As the torpedo is finally all the way down the loading hatch and clear, you then need to take up all slack on the chainhoist in torpedo room to allow the loading skid to be removed, the torpedo suspended (balanced), and then lowered into a skid.  Never allow any slack.  I would not try this today without 8-10 men. 

Here is an old picture of a U-boat crew loading a torpedo in WWII.  the A-frame assembly over the torpedo should be a hoist at the balance point of the torpedo. It should have been from this point that the wieght is transferred to the lower chairhoist once below.

[JTheotonio]

I have another thought - it was mentioned that no crane is available to helphoist the torpedo aboard.  But there is a nearby forklift that could be of some assistance.  So can you erect some sort of davot on board that you can use as your crane?  Davots are commonly used on ships, while not submarines, as a lifting device.   It would be a bit challenging to transfer from forkleft to davot, but possible.  The Davot is only needed to bring the torpedo on board.  After swung inplace on your loading cradle, you can then use normal handling equipment to lower into the boat.

What you need is to find a good Bosun's Mate to help with the rigging.