Periscopes Repairs

[Mark Sarsfield]

Plating it off isn't a bad idea, actually.  With the scopes out of the way, we could probably take advantage of the extra maneuvering room and get some painting done up there.  Even if we duct-taped heavy-duty garbage bags or modified tarps over the holes, it's better than nothing.

There's still the matter of King's Bay giving us the green light, once this budget mess is over for 2013. Then we have to get scope crates, get a scope removal clamp, get volunteers to show up on removal day, rent a crane, line up a trucking company, etc.

Darrin, do you still drive truck?

[Jim]

I would laser cut some plates to fit and then (I know, I know) silicone them shut. If you use 3M non-bonding sealant, it peels right off when you pull the plates.  The crane is going to be the biggest issue.  Not the weight, but the reach.  We are unique in that we are land locked AND in a bowl.  Cavalla, at least was half buried.  We have 40+ feet before we get started.  luckily, I know an excellent rigger that has the gear here in Tulsa and might be coerced into doing it for a little PR and a nice newspaper story.  Surely King's bay has some crates to loan us for the trip.  The Cavalla guys might come up to help if we ask nicely.  They've been there-done that  and would speed up the process.  Mr Lipinski may let us use his clamp.  trucking is easy too.  I know this guy........

[Darrin]

The only truck i drive now is a '07 Dodge Ram quad cab 4X4, sounds like a good road trip with a car trailer though... Who's payin the bill because it isn't me

[Mark Sarsfield]

Darrin,

  If you were still hauling cross country, we would have made it worth your while.  Sounds like we could probably find someone locally with a flatbed that is willing to take a road trip.


Jim,

  The distance from the keel to the top of the scopes is about 65 feet. Granted, we have a few feet in the dirt, but, as you said, it's still quite a reach.  Then, you need to be able to clear the scopes from the housings, which is probably another 15+ feet.  So, we need a crane with at least 100' reach (taking the angle of the boom into account).

  It would be nice if the Navy has available crates, but if a bunch of boats are knocking at TRF's door wanting scope repairs, we need to make it as palatable as possible for the Navy to want to help us.  EDIT: Money has been spent.  So, we could afford to crate them ourselves.

Edit: Sorry, Mark. talked to Rick. That fund is gone.

[Darrin]

Mark,

I believe that you may have me confused with another shipmate of mine from the Honolulu that does cross country trucking, the only truck driving I did was for the Army and it was 10+ years ago while I was in the 101st, Korea and then in combat with 3d ID.. If you want I maybe able to track them down and see if they would like to donate their time and truck for the move of the periscopes...

Funny thing, when we would get different periscopes in Pearl they used a 2 1/2 ton truck with blocking in the bed to move them from storage to where the boat was.. almost got in trouble once for "borrowing" one of those 2 1/2 ton trucks one night for a different purpose

[Jim]

We have HOW much?    A lot can be done with that.  I have cross country trucking contacts, so no problem there.  The issue is the scope crates.  That is priority one.  Navy coordination on those will take the longest I think to seal.  Either their crates or I make some blocked crates on site.  If we can get the Cavalla crew and Mr. Lipinski lined up, that's second for the clamp and removal.  100' boom, covered.  When do you start? (I have ZERO sub-stuff experience.)  I can work from the pressure hull to full armament outside.  Inside?  I defer to guys who know the boats.  I can help with logistical support and grunt labor and that's about it.

How long are the scopes crated (length)?

If Rick would let loose of some of that cash, I could have us an LCVP in a week.  

[Mark Sarsfield]

Here's a link to the scope manual (NAVPERS 16165)... http://www.hnsa.org/doc/fleetsub/pscope/index.htm.  According to the manual (page 43), the scope is under 42' long.  Longer than I originally thought.  So, we'll need a crane that goes 150' to be safe.

Chapter 2 actually talks about removing and installing a scope.  I will have to read it over, but any help from the Cavalla folks would be a big plus.

Until the 2013 federal budget mess goes away, I don't see TRF being in a position to help us and I'd rather not have the scopes laying around in a crate for a year waiting for the green light.  At least not until Rick gets his new storage room built... and assuming that it will be long enough to contain a 43' crate.

Ideally, you want the crates to be ready when the scopes are removed.  Maybe we can at least get crate prints from TRF.

[Jim]

I have crate storage covered as well.  No charge.  Logistics.  Getting the scopes out and crated is a seperate target, in my mind.  We have 1) out, 2) rebuild, 3) back-in.  let's work the 1.  If King's Bay agrees to repair them, we just need a ball park time frame.

[Mark Sarsfield]

Looks like the scopes will have to be held up by the crane while all of the gizmos on the bottom (viewing) end are removed.  A lot of items have to be place-marked during removal, too.  I'll need some time to do the proper homework before we plunge into removing the scopes.  Meanwhile, before we commit to building crates, let's see what the Navy can do for us in that area.

[Jim]

Roger.  I am here for support. Let me know when you're ready to start.

[Lapinski]

Sorry about being away for a while. i am trying to put this project in perspective. I have a few areas that i would like to cover. I hope anyone that is in on this project has read the appropriate sections of the Submarine Periscope Manual: NavPers 16165. It's online location was posted previously. Looking at the Online photos of the BATFISH Conning Tower I have determined that the the periscopes installed are a Type IV (#1 FWD) and a Type II (#2 AFT, Skinny Neck Attack) Both periscope are covered in the NavPers Manual. They are complex assemblies and during their manufacture skilled craftsmen put each one together in their own way. I will let you folks deal with the periscope shop as to their capabilities. Unfortunately, I was not involved with the CAVALLA rework so I don't know how far into periscopes the shop went and I don't know how the finished product came out. 

As far as removing the periscopes from the submarine, the difficulty is how free are they now? I assume they have not been up and down for a while. Do they rotate? If not, there may be issues with the Hull Seal and the upper bushings/bearings. They were used to regular greasing and salt water lubrication. I assisted with removing the two periscopes from the USS RASHER Conning Tower and it took a lot of penetrating oil and the largest hydraulic jacks that we could find just to make them move. We finally were able to lift them out. BTW the RASHER Conning Tower was installed in the Columbia River Maritime Museum in Astoria OR. The top of the conning tower and one of the periscopes ended up in Manitowoc, WI and the other periscope is in a museum in Marquette MI.

As far as shipping, they do not have to be crated as long as they are chocked in place and the head and eyepiece box are proteced. I have done that several times. An air ride flatbed trailer is recommended.

If you provide the Registry Numbers of the periscopes I may be able to provide some background information. The number would be four digits long and be on the nameplate. If no nameplates, the number should be stamped into the eyepiece box casting.

One last thing for this entry. I am working with the Naval History and Heritage Command and the Reuben H. Fleet Science Center in San Diego. The Science Center is looking for a home for their Type IV (shipped 5/25/45) that is scheduled to be removed in the near future. I have not viewed that periscope for about ten years and it was cloudy then. Is there anyone from BATFISH that will be in San Diego to evaluate it for possible use?

Paul Lapinski     

[Jim]

Mark, Rick...stations.  Mark, can you address Mr. Lipinski's questions?  Rick, if we can, would we want the type IV for an interactive "conning" display? Or try and have that one rebuilt and swap out for our IV?  If we have a crane on site, we pull two and replace one and we're halfway home.

[Mark Sarsfield]

Jim,

  I would recommend emailing or texting Rick with any questions.  He seldom visits here, anymore.


Paul,

  The scopes have been frozen in position since the 1970's.  The scopes are raised, but sitting on makeshift supports and are also supposedly shimmed in their housings, somehow.  The next time that I get to the boat, I will take photos of the set-up and write down the info that you requested.

[Darrin]

Mark,

When the crew broke the scopes loose on the Torsk a number of years ago it took a LOOOONNNGGG time to get all of the shims that held it in place out and have the lower end units put back on..

With the use of come a longs and a very large porta power over time with greasing the crew was able to break the scopes loose once more.. HOWEVER the Torsk does NOT have hydraulic power to raise or lower them at this time (to my knowledge).

This was documented on the Torsk bbs @ www.usstorsk.org and most if not all of the work took place during the work weekends, to find the link on the bbs look under the "activities" section and you will see all of the work weekends and other pictures from previous strip ships and what nots

Darrin

[Mark Sarsfield]

Darrin,


  Where do they usually shim it in the housing?  Top and bottom?